0:02
Most Christian business leaders get told that the Bible tells them be ethical, be
0:08
generous, and give money. But what if the Bible tells business people a whole
0:13
lot more? Not just how to succeed in business, but connect with the one that
0:17
set this whole plan up in the first place. Well, today I've got with me
0:21
Nicholas Leone. Now, he's interesting. Not only did he actually is the CEO and
0:26
founder of the business bible that we're going to talk about, but he's not the
0:30
kind of guy that you would expect to have written something like this. He's
0:35
background in hockey, in Wall Street. So, we're going to hear about that. And
0:38
what you're going to walk away with is our sus our suspicion is that it's not
0:43
that you don't want to know, it's you want to know how. So, we're going to
0:47
hear how do I engage as a business leader with the Bible? What is the
0:52
business bible? what can I do to get started today? And then there's a whole
0:56
heap of other things. And if you want to join us, there's going to be a lot more
0:59
people just like you meeting in Dallas at the end of August for the Heaven and
1:03
Business Conference. We'll post that link and more things below. Nicholas,
1:08
thank you so much for joining me.
1:10
>> Andy, thank you for being here. It's great to be with you. I I know we share
1:13
a love for the word and for business. So tell me, you you're a unique guy, Wall
1:19
Street, hockey, and yet I know and you and I talked, there's actually a story
1:23
that goes be a long time before that where you were born with this insatiable
1:28
hunger for the word of God. Explain that to us.
1:32
>> Yeah, as a boy, I had recurring dreams of Revelation 19, a rider on a white
1:37
horse whose name is the word of God. And I'd never read the Bible. And the first
1:42
time I opened the Bible, I discovered that that was the dream I'd been having.
1:46
>> So, so this is crazy. I mean, is that Are you Jewish? Are you Where does this
1:52
How could a kid have such a profound encounter with Jesus
1:57
from the Bible when you haven't read this? Was it a Christian home? Was there
2:01
anything that led up to this?
2:02
>> Well, that's how God works, right? Um, he's sovereign and he calls us and he
2:06
gives us a name. So, God knew me before I knew him. And it's been a journey ever
2:11
since getting to know him and finding my calling to work.
2:15
>> Now, I love that story. So, you have this this dream, this vision, this image
2:21
of Jesus coming and his name is the word of God. For those that don't know,
2:26
what's the what's that reference to?
2:28
>> Right? So, Revelation 19 says, "Glory to God, uh, through him is our salvation."
2:35
And then it says, "There's a rider on a white horse with fiery blazing eyes
2:39
whose name is the word of God. And no one knows his name except himself. And
2:44
on his thigh is the King of Kings and the and the Lord of Lords." And as a six
2:48
or sevenyear-old, that terrified me. I didn't know what that dream was, but I
2:52
found consolation in that dream. And for those of you who think the end of the
2:56
world is coming, or soon, in the 1970s, there was this book called Late Great
3:01
Planet Earth. And everybody thought the end of the world was coming because of
3:04
the great Soviet empire, right? And so I was walking through my house one day and
3:09
my family was having a a Bible reading and a group study on late great planet
3:13
earth and they were opened to Revelations 19. I had never read a
3:17
Bible. I looked at that passage and I said, "I know what that is. I know what
3:22
that means." And my my family looked at me like, "Who is this young boy who
3:26
understands what this is saying? We don't even understand what it is." And
3:30
so that began a genesis in me, a desire for the word of God to discover what
3:35
does that really mean? And that led me to a life and a journey of of traveling
3:40
to places to find meaning like Athens and Rome and then eventually to
3:44
Lebreeze, Switzerland where Francis Scha Francis Schaefer was and then to
3:48
seminary at Fuller Seminary in California to discover the word of God
3:52
and what it means to me and to the world.
3:54
>> So this is cool. I want to highlight one thing for for you watching this and
3:58
you're like it's just a book. No. Revelation 19. His name is the word.
4:05
We're talking of Jesus. John what one? John 1. In the beginning was the word.
4:08
The was with God. The word was God. So Jesus is the living word of God. So is
4:14
it a book? Yes. Can I read it as a book? Yes. Does it give you wisdom for life?
4:19
Yes. But it's far more than that. Now, Nicholas, normally
4:25
somebody like you, I'm born with a gift, a a leaning towards spiritual things and
4:32
towards literally the word of God that I didn't even know. You would normally I
4:36
would expect you'd end up as a priest, as a as a seminary theologian. What
4:41
happened?
4:42
>> Well, I I think I have three loves. I I have three loves in life. Sports,
4:46
business, and the Bible, right? And remember, I was discovering what that
4:50
dream meant in my life and what the word of God meant to me in my life, right?
4:53
And that's a lifelong journey. So, um, like most people are or young athletes,
4:58
you you pursue sports first. Like, so God gives us these desires, right, in
5:02
our heart. And I think we're all fortunate to if we follow them. So, I
5:06
followed my first love, which was to be an ice hockey player, right? And I I
5:10
learned my first biblical principle playing ice hockey. It's better to give
5:14
than to receive, right? And so so God put me in the penalty box
5:19
where I did a lot of thinking.
5:21
>> Yeah.
5:21
>> And that began, you know, my learning. But um yeah, first I went to Wall Street
5:26
because um I was a young athlete or first I went to to play ice hockey
5:30
around the world as a young athlete and then I was called to business on Wall
5:33
Street um with the Bible. Hang
5:35
>> on. You said you were called to business. Go back a step. You got this
5:40
hunger for the Bible. Did you know the God of the Bible? Was it just like a
5:44
relationship with a book? Was there cuz then you say I was called to business.
5:49
So go back number one. Did you was there any like a spiritual
5:55
awakening or like is there a like a with the author or was it just a book at that
5:59
stage or is this a journey? And then when you said I'm called to business,
6:03
what do you mean by that?
6:04
>> Right. Right. So I had a profound sense as a boy that God knew me.
6:12
>> Wow. and that he would fulfill his purpose in my life. And so I entered
6:17
life with that confidence. Yeah. As a young Catholic boy, I would look at the
6:23
stations of the cross in the Catholic church and they meant a lot to me,
6:27
right? They they they um they illuminated what was the genesis of my
6:32
faith. I stole a Bible from the Catholic church uh one day and took it out of the
6:36
church because I wanted to learn what was in it. Right. So there was this draw
6:40
to God through the word of God from a very early age. As a as a young
6:45
teenager, I was born again, right? And I was discipled by a young Christian
6:50
family. Um and then um I had this, as I said, a strong sense of pursuing the
6:55
things that God made you to do because you love them. Ice hockey, sports, uh
7:00
Wall Street, and then eventually um the Bible, right? But uh I went to school
7:06
and and to university and seminary with the understanding that I wanted to know
7:11
God and the the God of the word to equip me for sport and for business.
7:17
>> So that's so this is profound. So you're listening, you're watching this and all
7:22
you've pursued is business, business, business. Or here here we're talking to
7:26
Nicholas. He pursued the Bible and the God of the Bible, but not to become a
7:32
teacher of the Bible, but to actually understand the Bible as it pertains to
7:36
life. Is it possible that this book is not about teaching just some spiritual
7:42
laws to get you out of here or survive, but how to live well? It sounds like
7:49
that was your story, Nicholas.
7:51
>> Andy, you're right. So, I was quoted on Wall Street as I went to Wall Street to
7:58
build a life that supports a career, not the other way around. And I went to
8:04
seminary to study the word, to get to know the God of the word and to design
8:09
my life, not to be a minister, but to be a faithful man of God.
8:13
>> That's cool. Like, and just even on that, isn't that actually how most of
8:19
our educational institutions were established? they established on the
8:23
word of God and then every it's like everybody had to learn Hebrew, Greek and
8:27
then from that you learn medical or learn science or learn teaching or learn
8:31
something else. We've kind of just thrown that out. So do you any comment
8:35
on that?
8:36
>> Yeah, sure. So I think when you go to seminary and you study theology there,
8:40
they teach you Greek and Hebrew. Um, I actually signed up for for Greek first
8:46
semester and there was an Asian Chinese professor who didn't speak English
8:50
teaching Greek in which I immediately dropped the class, right?
8:54
But they teach you Greek and Hebrew, they teach you theology, they teach you
8:58
the three-point sermon. Um, I went with one goal in mind. I wanted to know the
9:03
word of God. And what I left uh Fuller Seminary was was two things. One is I
9:09
understood context, right? So when you learn to research and study the Bible,
9:14
you learn context is important, right? And then the second thing I learned is
9:19
God can use anyone wherever they are. And the Bible is full of characters who
9:24
worked, right? And Bible stories are really business case studies when you
9:30
discover the Bible's about business.
9:32
>> So you said you were called to Wall Street. What do you mean by that?
9:37
Yeah, I think what I mean by that and what I understood then was God had given
9:42
me me these gifts, right? Um the gift of speaking, the gift of uh economics and
9:48
and I was good with math and and money management. And so I had those gifts or
9:54
abilities as the Bible calls them and they needed to be turned into skills.
9:58
And so Wall Street is a great uh place, right, to turn your abilities into
10:03
skills every day. And then in addition to that, I knew when I graduated
10:08
seminary that I was young and I lacked the character to be a leader or a
10:14
minister. And so I needed real life experience to go form um form um my
10:20
calling and understand who I was as a young man. And so that's what I mean by
10:25
called using your abilities uh for the glory of God, right? To fulfill a
10:29
purpose. So you pursue the Bible, you go through seminary, you go through work.
10:36
So surely then because you're reading the book to understand how to succeed in
10:39
life, you've just succeeded in life.
10:42
>> Well, so so that would be where the big change is and and you and I talked about
10:46
this, right? So
10:47
>> I think for the most of my life and most of my career, like a lot of people, I
10:53
desired to do the right thing. I tried to do the right thing. sometimes failed
10:58
at doing the right thing. But it was coming from my own will, my own
11:03
valition. And it was when um I discovered that it's his will be done,
11:09
not my will be done. And there's a secret to that that everything began to
11:13
change. So the Bible is a book about life and work. The Bible works whether
11:21
you believe it or not, and it is a manual for success. However, it's
11:27
greater to discover the author of the book. In the beginning was the word and
11:32
the word was with God and the word was God. And so that happened to me through
11:37
crisis on Wall Street and led me to the business bible.
11:42
>> So, so unpack that some more. Go back a step. I mean, you're pursuing it. You
11:47
say you've got an economics brain. You're like it's it's you're I'm going
11:51
to win. You're wired to win. Wired to compete. You're on Wall Street armed
11:56
with the word of God. I'm just I'm reminded of the story of Paul in the
12:00
Bible that he was wired to win full of the word of God and literally he was
12:05
pretty rough as in it says and when he left Jerusalem and peace came. So what
12:11
was you what were you like on Wall Street? Were you this B like did you
12:16
lead with the Bible? Were you a kind, loving, gracious, winning, succeeding?
12:22
There was an element of this. Did the Bible set you up to practically succeed
12:26
in Wall Street?
12:28
>> Yeah, I think two things with ice hockey and Wall Street, they're very similar.
12:32
So, they reward uh discipline and hard work, right? And the bell goes off in
12:36
the morning and it it goes off in the afternoon and you finished a day's work.
12:40
You rest and you you do it all over again. And so, I think we we look at God
12:43
in creation, you know, he works six days and then he rests and he he calls us, he
12:48
commands us to work six days and then rest. So the rhythm of sport and Wall
12:53
Street is very similar to the to the rhythm of creation. So I was all in. I'm
12:58
still allin. I love work and I love life. And so uh life is not a dress
13:02
rehearsal, right? It's it's discovering that rhythm of work and life. And so um
13:08
yes, uh God uses people like Paul. Um he uses hockey players. He uses business
13:14
people um to fulfill his purposes. And what was amazing to me was is that um I
13:22
discovered Jesus on Wall Street in a way that I had never discovered him before
13:27
through the word of God. And and let me just say this, when I was on Wall
13:31
Street, and I've lived in New York and LA most of my life, no one objects to
13:35
hearing what the Bible says about business, especially how Jesus
13:39
multiplied the talents, right? Jesus doubled the money. So, we all want to do
13:44
well at work in life. And so that was the uh that was the spirit of of um
13:49
being there on Wall Street working hard and disciplined um and being informed by
13:54
the word of God.
13:55
>> Yeah. So you but it changed from being informed by the word of God to you
14:00
saying meeting Jesus. So I can I can go years with the Bible, with a seminary
14:06
degree, fuller seminary degree, hearing God as a kid and seeing pictures, but
14:13
still missing the core of what the book is really all about. It's not just about
14:17
a rule book to win at Hockey or Wall Street, how to double your money, but
14:22
actually there's more. You said you met Jesus in a different way on Wall Street.
14:26
Tell us about that.
14:27
>> That's right. So Jesus called me when I was a young boy through dreams. I I met
14:31
Jesus when I was a teenager, young young man. Um when I said I met Jesus in a
14:36
different way on Wall Street, I'm referring to Jesus' parable of the
14:40
talents. And so everybody on Wall Street and in business knows the parable of the
14:44
talents. Uh Jesus um tells a story that there was an owner, a wealthy owner who
14:49
entrusted eight talents to three stewards, five, two, and one. and two of
14:54
them went away uh for a long time and and invested the money at once and then
14:59
returned, right? And they and they reported to the owner that I've I've
15:04
turned your talents I've doubled your money. I've turned your talents your
15:07
five talents into 10. I've turned your two talents into four. And Jesus says,
15:12
"Well done, good and faithful servant." To the one who didn't invest, he said,
15:17
"You worthless servant. Take the money from him. Take the talents from him and
15:20
give it to the one who has 10." Right? And so I read that parable a thousand
15:25
times. I've been to B school. I've been to SE seminary. Everybody knows that
15:29
parable. They and they say this. Whoever is faithful with a few things will be
15:33
faithful with with much. Right? And that's true. So we're all working hard
15:36
to try to do that. But I asked a different question. What is a talent?
15:42
And so a talent is not your skill or ability. That it refers to the stewards
15:47
having abilities and they allocated the talents according to their abilities. A
15:51
talent is a financial weight and measure. It literally means 75.4
15:57
pounds of gold. So on Wall Street, I I got on my Bloomberg and I said, "What's
16:01
the price of gold?" Right? 75.4* 16* $2,000 an ounce in that day, right?
16:07
In the '90s. And oh my, Jesus is talking about investing
16:13
eight talents worth $2 million each. He's talking about investing $20 million
16:17
of gold and he doubles the money. That's what I mean. I encountered Jesus in my
16:21
work and his process to allocate according to ability, diversify among
16:26
three, um, wait, you know, give time for investments to multiply and then give an
16:30
accounting is what we call on Wall Street the institutional investment
16:34
process. Every good money manager does that. So, everyone wanted to know how
16:38
did Jesus double the money
16:40
>> and and you learned it and saw it from a book. So why are you not still in Wall
16:47
Street just doubling the money?
16:50
>> So um as you know I started in the bottom as a broker and I worked my way
16:54
up to being a hedge fund owner and manager. And one day I was pitching um
16:59
my hedge fund to what's called a fund of funds. And to give you some background
17:05
um many of your listeners and business people are familiar with the global
17:09
financial crisis, right? I'd literally been through five crisis. I'd been
17:14
through the Asian financial crisis, the Russian financial crisis, the Latin
17:18
American financial crisis, the dotcom crisis, and then the global financial
17:21
crisis, right? So, I'd seen markets go down as much as 50 to 90% around the
17:27
world.
17:27
>> Yeah.
17:27
>> And so, I was born in crisis, right, on Wall Street. And um during the great
17:33
global financial crisis, people lost their jobs, they lost their houses, they
17:39
lost their life savings and and markets declined, the economy went into
17:42
recession. And it was very painful for all of us. And I asked a very important
17:49
question for myself and I think for others is is there a better way to do
17:54
business? That was the seinal question that I asked and Wall Street wasn't
17:59
providing any clear guidance. The church was largely silent on the subject. You
18:04
know, we heard uh be a good steward, give while you can, and and see the
18:08
market's down, so invest in eternity, right? Give your money away. And I'm
18:11
thinking, wait a minute, God owns the whole world. He created us to work. He
18:15
wants us to make all things new. What are what's there's a disconnect between
18:20
Sunday and Monday. What can we do Monday through Friday to change the world? And
18:25
and in addition to the parable of the talents, I read Leviticus chapter 25 and
18:30
discovered the economy is cyclical and reflects divine design. It goes through
18:37
these cycles. It always has. And so that gave me hope, right? That this crisis
18:42
will end.
18:43
>> But what's what's the solution? What can we do to be prepared for it? And it's
18:48
amazing in the story of Joseph. Um he has this this dream, right? And he has a
18:54
vision uh he interprets a dream uh for the pharaoh and it says you'll have
18:58
seven years of plenty and seven years of want. Yeah.
19:01
>> Right. And so save 1/5. Right. And be prepared. Right. So that word save
19:08
means 15th just like tithe
19:13
means onetenth.
19:15
>> Okay. And so what I witnessed on Wall Street is that people who had saved and
19:20
followed God's design were well equipped for the crisis,
19:25
>> right?
19:25
>> And so that was the change for me. And so I'm pitching my second hedge fund,
19:30
right, to this fund of funds guy. And I say, "Look, um, you know, we have one of
19:34
the best track records on Wall Street. Um, and we're seeking investment. It's
19:38
where you turn a $20 million hedge fund into a $200 million hedge fund and go
19:41
mainstream." And he said to me, "Nicholas,
19:45
I just don't think the Bible has anything to do with business, right? Can
19:48
you u do you want me to introduce you to our ESG group because I can't sell this?
19:53
I just don't believe that the Bible has anything to do with business." And I
19:56
said to him, I said, "Well, you're a money manager due diligence expert,
20:00
right? You have you're a fund of funds. You perform diligence on my fund and and
20:05
and you're a value investor." Yes. And I said, "Okay, great. who invented how to
20:11
value an asset? And he looked at me and he looked at his team and he had this
20:15
curiosity on him and he I said, "It's okay. You I know you don't know. Your
20:20
team doesn't know." I might be the only guy on Wall Street in the world that
20:23
knows the answer to this. Moses recorded how to value an asset in Leviticus
20:27
chapter 25. He says, "When you buy or sell, count the years to the Jubilee.
20:32
Increase the price if the yield is good. Decrease it if it's bad." And remember,
20:37
it's it's the the yield you're buying, not the land. Andy, he looked at me and
20:43
he said, "Nicholas, that's the first time religion ever made sense to me."
20:48
>> Oh, wow.
20:49
>> I knew right then that that's what I was called to do to help the world discover
20:53
what the Bible says about business.
20:54
>> Yeah. So, that was the spark that led you to realize not this is not just
20:59
about me. This is about training others. How did that I mean so you've got these
21:05
progressive stories of it's almost like you've got this story of Jesus as a
21:10
little boy then in the hockey on the hockey arena then in Wall Street but
21:15
this progressive if you're listening to this right now I want you to hear this
21:18
part of the story Nicholas heard from Jesus as a child he was born for this
21:25
but God didn't tell him what to do as a six or sevenyear-old it was this journey
21:30
of walking with him and learning character and learning skill and
21:33
learning leaning into what he was good at and becoming better at it. And then
21:37
these different seasons in life and being led by the desires of his heart,
21:41
faithfully stewarding what he got and then through the word of God kept
21:45
interpreting. It wasn't just a once and dunce. It's actually a walking and
21:49
having a relationship with the word that kept informing you and adjusting you and
21:53
leading you which has led you to the season now. You leave Wall Street. I'm
21:57
assuming you left Wall Street and then you start this crazy project.
22:02
>> Yeah. I had friends like you who said, "Nicholas, when you talk about business
22:06
in the Bible, it's like nothing we've ever heard. You really need to do
22:09
something with it." Right. And so we funded a little company called the
22:12
Business Bible. And then in in January 2020 and then in January 21, I spent 20
22:19
hours a day um reading and researching, we call it executing all 31,000 verses
22:25
of the Bible in Hebrew and Greek and discovering what the Bible says about
22:31
business. And um I call it a discovery, right? Because the truth has been hiding
22:35
there in plain sight for all of us to see and to find. And um and so that
22:40
began the genesis of the business bible. I I love this. So,
22:46
just jump to this piece. One thing that you have done is you've
22:52
continually like you're a get my teeth knocked out. Spend time in the we would
22:57
call it the sin bin in New Zealand.
22:59
>> Yes, that's right.
23:00
>> You get you're like in the penalty box. You learn through the penalty. You learn
23:05
through all of this. But each time you've adjusted and
23:09
changed and grown. You're like a a learn by smacking up against a wall or a
23:14
player or a Wall Street or a conversation.
23:18
But then you've adjusted. What's surrender got to do with all of
23:22
this? Because I see a whole lot of Christian business leaders. It's like,
23:26
"Yep, I'm going to add that to my life. I'm going to do this." And you've
23:29
alluded to this through this whole thing. It's not just about following a
23:33
set of rules or practices, but there's something deeper to this. There's a
23:37
secret to it, and it's the opposite of independence. Can you unpack that for
23:42
us?
23:43
>> Yeah, I'll do my best to try. I think the book of Job um does a great job and
23:49
it's always been consoling to me. One thing I learned, Andy, is that when we
23:54
we go through suffering and and once I discovered the business
23:59
bible and and knew my life calling, in fact, I I don't even say I was called to
24:03
this. I was created for this, right? It's deeper than that, right? It's who I
24:07
am. And once that um was a sure foundation, I went through a period of
24:14
of trials and and suffering. Um, we were at a church that had a national crisis
24:19
of leadership, right? Um, I had a chairman of one of my companies who was
24:25
killed in a plane crash, right?
24:27
>> And then there was brokenness around uh the shuttering of that company, right?
24:33
Um, I had a beautiful home and children, a 10,000t home that that burned to the
24:38
ground in a fire and um, I physically went through um, challenges and my
24:45
family was was separated and and today we live in a beautiful home together in
24:50
California and my children are all in wonderful school and God has restored
24:55
um, all of my life, right? And is redeeming um, my life. But I learned
25:00
something and I I think this is really important for us to all understand. When
25:04
you face trials and suffering, there's really two choices and it's they're
25:09
directional.
25:09
>> Yeah.
25:10
>> One is called repentance. And if you're guilty, you have to repent
25:16
and change directions. But if you're not guilty, it's called
25:20
perseverance. And it's only between you and God to
25:24
determine which one of those it is. And so, will we repent and change directions
25:30
or will we persevere towards the calling that he's called us to and overcome the
25:34
world like Jesus did, right? And be victorious. And so, I encourage the
25:39
listeners today uh that if if your future requires repentance, that's the
25:44
path through suffering. If your future requires perseverance, then that's
25:48
that's the path. And so, so I've repented. I've persevered. And God has
25:53
restored my life in a way that I I never could imagine and still is doing that.
25:57
And that's the work that he does.
25:59
>> Yeah. And I mean, what I'm hearing you say is actually it's not either or, it's
26:02
both. There will be repentance, adjusting, humbling myself. There is a
26:07
bigger yes, a bigger lead, and it's not me. Um, it's like I am not the source of
26:13
all truth and knowledge. It is God himself. He is the word. The word was
26:18
God. It's a person. And when I surrender and yield to that and then stay the
26:23
course, but I'm I'm I'm 52. I'm still learning repentance. It's like, oh, I
26:28
thought I'd dealt with that. Nope. I still got pride, still got ego, still
26:32
walking through this. Nicholas, you launched the business bible. You funded
26:36
it. But you also actually would 20 hours a day actually building it, walking it
26:40
through, which is crazy. So for somebody listening today, they say, "I man, I
26:46
want to know the Bible, but I just don't know where to start or how." Okay, you
26:51
you've intrigued me. I'm curious where where would one start?
26:57
>> So start in the beginning, right? We have to start in the beginning. So the
27:02
business bible is the Bible for business people. It's it's a complete Bible. It's
27:07
everything the Bible says about business. And it reveals what the Bible
27:12
says about business through articles, briefs, case studies, and and we call it
27:17
the gold letter edition. You may have a a red letter edition, Jesus words in
27:21
red. This is the gold letter edition, business principles in gold. So, um, in
27:26
the front of the business bible is what we call the front matter. There's an
27:30
executive summary like every business document. Yeah.
27:32
>> Start in the beginning. The business bible is for everyone who works or
27:37
anyone who wants to start a business, an entrepreneur, a CEO. And what it does is
27:42
it helps us discover God and discover what the Bible says through about
27:47
business and and how to do life and work. So that's a a good starting point.
27:52
>> So I that's great. And I mean for those that are listening, I'm looking at mine.
27:56
Actually, I got given this not by Nicholas, by someone completely
28:00
independent. I didn't even know Nicholas at the time. Th this is for people that
28:04
are listening to this right now. This is not a new Bible. Just really really
28:08
clearly this is NASB995. Just explain that to us.
28:14
>> Right. So the business bible is is published um by Forefront Books, Simon
28:18
and Schustster, the world's largest distributor and publisher. Um it's the
28:21
NSB 2000 version. Okay. Right. Which is the most accurate word for word
28:26
translation. It's also available in most major translations on our business bible
28:31
app. Yeah. So it's not a new just for those
28:34
this is not a paraphrased version. It's not a new translation. It's an old
28:39
translation a verified translation in terms of its accuracy.
28:43
>> But do you call it an is it annotated? What what's the
28:47
>> Right. Right. So this is what you call a topical Bible not necessarily a study
28:51
Bible. Right. So it it has the complete NASB version and the other translations
28:56
on the app. And then there are 66 articles about what the Bible says about
29:00
business. They're like Harvard Business Review articles. Then there's 66 book
29:04
introductions, right? And then case studies. This was the major learning for
29:09
me. Bible stories are business case studies, Andy. Right. And so there are
29:15
case studies in there that are God's case studies, not my case studies that
29:19
illustrate how to follow these principles like fair dealing, pay wages
29:23
on time, invest your money, be generous there, keeping this keeping the Sabbath.
29:28
There are case studies in the Old and New Testament that illustrate these
29:32
principles. So we know exactly how to apply these to our life and work today.
29:36
>> So one of the keys that this highlights then is this is not just for people that
29:41
love and follow Jesus and want to know Jesus. This is a tool that is a any you
29:47
could give this to anybody. Tell us about that.
29:51
>> Yes. So, so we we have and we do, right? The the business Bible is for everyone
29:56
who works, right? And the Bible works whether you're a believer, atheist,
30:01
agnostic, secularist, it it the Bible works. The world is designed this way.
30:07
We we are all familiar with God's design for work, the six day work week, the
30:11
Sabbath, right? Dealing fairly, right? Multiplying capital over time. All of us
30:16
are familiar with his design. What the business bible does is it's the word of
30:21
God, right? That can help us trust these principles to design our life around
30:26
them, right? Six, seven days a week. And in that process, our desire is that you
30:31
encounter the one who authored the book, not me, the original author.
30:35
>> Yeah. So, talk to me about, you mentioned on our previous call about
30:39
atheists, agnostics. It's like you never know what you might
30:43
need. What was that quote? And so how this can be a this is such a great tool.
30:48
I love it. You've even called a business bible. It says it up front. This is
30:52
really nice. Heavy. It's leather. It it's great like as a gift of value to
31:00
somebody. You never know when you're going to need this.
31:03
>> Well, we we believe in craftsmanship, right? And we want to glorify God
31:07
through our work and our craftsmanship. I I think what I was shared with you is
31:12
um business people share a common culture and specifically a common
31:19
language. Well, that language was originally recorded and revealed in the
31:24
Bible, right? And so the business bible speaks the language of business. I'm a
31:29
business guy. It's my native tongue. Right? When Paul said, "Be all things to
31:33
all people." If we were going to do missions in Brazil, we'd speak
31:37
Portuguese. If we're going to do missions in China, we'd speak Mandarin
31:40
or Cantonese. If we want to reach the world in the marketplace, we have to
31:45
speak the language of business, economics, investing, generosity. And so
31:49
that's what the business bible does. It helps people discover in their own
31:53
language. And then to your second point, on Wall Street, we have something called
31:59
a black swan event. You need to prepare for a black swan event. A black swan
32:03
event is like a a a standard deviation away from the the worst things that can
32:08
happen and nobody anticipates it or can expect what's going to happen. It's like
32:11
the global financial crisis, right? And it's always good there's a there's an
32:16
unwritten rule in business and on Wall Street that it's always good to value
32:20
another's perspective and understand it even if you don't believe in it. And so
32:25
whether you believe in the Bible or not, it's a great uh book, right? It's it's
32:30
the word of God, but it's it's full of timeless wisdom and it's invaluable for
32:35
your life and work.
32:36
>> Yeah. And I love that. I'm just wondering too is how many pastors and uh
32:42
ministry leaders would actually benefit from a book like this because if they
32:47
would read it and see some of the case studies, just the same Bible, but it's
32:50
actually got some notes and case studies that then would be so applicable to so
32:56
many people in your congregation. Have you noticed an uptake by pastors and
33:00
spiritual leaders?
33:01
>> Yeah, I think it's clear that there's a marketplace movement going on and
33:05
pastors are open to that. We've partnered with World Evangelical
33:07
Alliance and the Lausone organization. Um Andy, you're right. The business
33:12
bible bridges the gap between pastors and their people who work, right? It
33:19
gives them a common language, a Bible pastors are familiar with and business
33:23
that business people do every day, you know, Monday through Friday, six days a
33:27
week even. And so it is a bridge for the pastor and their people. The daily app
33:33
does something different, Andy. When I was on Wall Street, I spent, you know,
33:38
three decades on Wall Street. I would wake up every morning, I still keep East
33:42
Coast hours on the West Coast. I'd read my Bible, read my devotion, and then
33:46
read the Wall Street Journal, right? and turn on the Bloomberg and go to work.
33:50
So, what the Business Bible app does is it does that work for business people.
33:54
You download the app and you get daily news every day, all the highlighted
33:59
stories with a biblical principle that helps you have a biblical point of view
34:04
and it's invaluable for your business and your life every single day.
34:08
>> So, for someone that's saying, I I want to find out more. I want to see this. I
34:12
want to use this. I want to get them as gifts for people that I love and value.
34:16
What are the what's the practical step? How do I do that?
34:18
>> So, you can go to businessbible.com and you can order your copy and gift copies.
34:23
Um, we're coming out with a campaign in July um that you'll be able to gift
34:28
copies to your business colleagues. Um, and you can also download the business
34:32
bible app at Apple and Google.
34:34
>> And I love that. I mean, I've got my own. I'm starting to mark it up. It's
34:38
got, you know, some people think that's sacrilege, but I love to interact with
34:42
it. It It's coming alive for me. Again, it's fun to have this. So, certainly
34:47
thank you for what you've done. This is really, really valuable. Um, I know for
34:51
those that are listening and watching, if if you're hungry to experience more
34:56
of the God of the word, then join us in Dallas. Uh, it's the end of August.
35:00
You'll find a couple hundred business leaders that are just like this. I don't
35:05
want to just have the word in my life. I I want it to inform what I do. But even
35:10
more than that, I want a personal relationship with the God that calls
35:14
himself the word. The God that would wake up Nicholas as a kid and or wake
35:20
him up while he's sleeping and giving him images that are from scripture that
35:24
he hadn't even read. I think that's just so profound. I'm also going to post
35:28
below a devotional that we've done with a friend of ours that since 1974,
35:34
they've spent a day and a half in the word of God. and he's a business guy,
35:38
not a seminary guy, not a minister. It's just profound. And what I'm loving to
35:43
see is a greater hunger. Uh Nicholas, final comments, encouragement to
35:48
business leaders and the Bible. What would you say?
35:52
>> I'm really grateful, Andy, for for being on heaven in business and and God is at
35:56
work, right? And um I want to give all of us hope that we can participate in
36:01
the work of God through business creating a better future, right? God is
36:05
restoring and redeeming the whole world. God is at work and we are his
36:09
workmanship.
36:10
>> So good. Thank you. Check it out. Business Bible. We'll post those links
36:15
below. And I follow this story because even last year we're hearing well this
36:21
year we're hearing Gen Z is the first generation in decades that are actually
36:27
increasing their hunger for the word of God. I'm loving it that we get to be
36:31
alive today. Thank you so much for joining me, Nicholas. God bless you.
36:34
Thank you.
